Posts by under the radar

11

I find little to respect about the J-dog. Of course, since he doesn't exist anyway, it's a moot point. It's just a crying shame that a civilization as advanced as ours still clings to old superstitions and thinks it's ok to kill others who cling to slightly different superstitions. This world would be a lot better off if there were no religion at all.

13

To all elders, some probing questions on assault by a member by another member.

by FatFreek 2005 in

the title should have read, "assault by a member toward another member".

(unfortunately, i couldn't find a way to edit the title).

you happen to be driving by what looks to be your own empty kingdom hall and something doesn't look quite right.

under the radar

When the elders "approve" someone for baptism, it is tantamount to saying that this person has sufficient knowledge of (their version of) the teachings of the Bible to commit to living by them and that this person is therefore acceptable as a member of the congregation. All other aspects of the baptismal candidate's life (living arrangements, "acceptable" employment, sexual orientation, marital status, etc.) have been delved into and determined to meet JW standards so that the candidate doesn't bring reproach on ~~the organization~~ Jehovah's name.

I agree that the organization has no legal obligation to inquire into an individual's immigration status even though they certainly inquire into everything else. But if it is known that the person is willfully breaking "Caesar's laws" on an ongoing basis, ignoring that fact by accepting them for baptism and presenting them to other JW's and the world as law-abiding Christians constitutes tacit approval and endorsement of their actions.

I say this because while the JW's claim that baptism is merely an outward sign of one's personal dedication to God and the commitment to do his will, it is actually a de facto initiation into the Watchtower Society, regardless of how they phrase it or what organizational name they use. The JW baptismal "vows" no longer offer even a pretense that the candidate is being baptized in the name of "the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." It is much more like a swearing-in ceremony than a traditional Christian baptism.

I believe there are two main reasons the elders are told not to consider a baptismal candidate's immigration status when deciding whether to approve them for baptism. First, most of what little growth there is in the West and particularly in the US is among Hispanics and it appears that a disproportionate number of those are "undocumented." The Society needs all the new members it can get (to boost their numbers), and can't afford to turn away whole groups of potential ~~guileless victims~~ converts. Second, if it became widely known that JW's were "withholding baptism" on the basis of a person's legal immigration status, it would probably generate a lot of bad publicity and the backlash could be dramatic. Certain cities or companies might refuse to rent them facilities for their precious (and moneymaking) conventions. I have no doubt that certain of the media would be positively apoplectic. It would be the height of political incorrectness. I can hear it now: "Principle be damned! We gotta protect our ~~money~~ reputation!"

In at least one instance, elders were instructed in writing and on official Watchtower stationery to accept for baptism a self-confessed murderer who was even at that time a fugitive from the law. While I accept that elders are not the police and it is not their place to investigate crime and enforce Caesar's laws, it sure seems odd to me that the organization would want to be complicit in cloaking such a person with the appearance of living (their version of) a Christian life.

Especially when they are so quick to denounce and shun an otherwise exemplary member whose only "sin" is to question any Watchtower doctrine, interpretation, or policy, however mercurial and self-serving it may be. Now that's hypocrisy on an industrial scale.

103

My life ... and how JWD came to be - Part 5

by Simon in

my life ... and how jwd came to be - part 1. my life ... and how jwd came to be - part 2. my life ... and how jwd came to be - part 3. my life ... and how jwd came to be - part 4. i swear, i thought it was only a couple of years at most since i wrote part 4 of "my life and how jwd came to be".

i re-read it after someone posted to it and brought it back on active topics and it was kind of prophetic in a way ... well, i had the 5 years part right if nothing else:.

it would be nice to visit the site (or whatever one is around then) in 5 years time to let people know how we're doing and find only a few of the same people still around.

under the radar

Hello Simon and Angharad!

I'm so glad this thread was resurrected. It's been so long it felt like I reading it for the first time. You're a very good story teller, Simon, and that's good because you have very interesting story to tell.

Did you ever find the tapes of your JC and post them? If so, I'd appreciate your telling me how to find them. If not, I completely understand that you have much more important things on your mind and may have just decided to let dead dogs lie.

I haven't been to Calgary recently, but the next time I do it would be my pleasure to meet you and your family for a nice dinner. My treat, of course. And don't worry. I have no agenda. No requests, no favors to ask. I'd just like to meet and visit with the couple who have done so much to help others escape and recover from being victimized by the mind-control cult the Watchtower has become.

Or if you're ever in the Boston area, let me know and I'll make every effort to meet up with y'all there.

Thanks again for all you and Miss Angharad do.

Radar

25

My oldest friend, Quincy Roberts, Ex-JW died last night at age 66

by TerryWalstrom in

jw
friends

the first time i walked into a kingdom hall, i was about 15 years old.

i shook hands with a 12-year-old named quincy.

as time passed and we grew older, quincy hung out with us older j-dubs.

under the radar

This entire thread is a wonderful tribute to your friend, Terry. So sorry for your loss. I agree with others here who said, "They don't make friends like you anymore."

I too have lost friends and loved ones, and not always through death, though it seems just as painful. Many others have suffered their own personal losses. Someone far wiser than I once said that grief shared was grief divided, but love shared was love multiplied. I believe that is true. Let us share your grief and multiply the love you had for your dear friends. You are not alone.

Take care...

12

Trump in Prophecy

by Vanderhoven7 in

two weeks ago i got an email from a friend saying that according to a recent prophecy, trump would win the election by a landslide.

as i dug into it, i found the following:.

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/57209-shocking-2011-prophecy-about-donald-trump-becoming-president.

under the radar

Simon is absolutely right. This is BS from the get-go. The JW's do much the same thing when they try to explain away yet another prediction that proves false. I've actually heard from the platform, "Sometimes you can't understand a Bible prophecy until it is fulfilled." Well, duh! Anybody can point to some vague statement in the past than can be interpreted to fit the circumstances and say, "See! I told you so!" That approach defeats the whole purpose of "prophecy."

Trump didn't win in any landslide anyway. He did get the required number of electoral votes to win, but not by a huge margin. And it appears that Hillary actually got more popular votes that he did. Either way, it's much more of a razor thin victory than a landslide.

That said, he is in fact the President-elect. So we all have to just deal with it and do the best with whatever comes our way. He may surprise us. Reagan wasn't the greatest genius of all time, but (with Nancy's help) he surrounded himself with competent people and actually listened to them. I think Reagan's greatest strength (other than looking Presidential and being a gifted orator) was that he could give people an assignment and then get out of their way and let them do their jobs. I don't know if Trump can do that. We'll see...

By the way, this is not an endorsement of Trump, Reagan, or anyone else. All Presidents have their pluses and minuses, their devoted supporters and vehement opposers. This is just what I hope is an objective observer's viewpoint. I try to be pragmatic and just deal with the facts as they are. There are times when you can't change your circumstances, so you just adapt the best you can and move on. The main thing is to never give up.

13

Jehovah's Witnesses DO break up families

by UnshackleTheChains in

this recording was the final straw for me.

https://youtu.be/ks2ld6pjybo.

under the radar

That first recording was heartbreaking! I couldn't bring myself to watch the second one.

The elders were conducting a veritable inquisition. How did you get to the airport? What about the other day when your parents were seen at your home? What busybodies! Modern day Pharisees in action.

I hope the young lady realizes how lucky she will be if she finally gets free of this mind-control cult and moves on with her life.

57

November JW broadcast is up, this time on not telling the truth, shunning

by bohm in

jw
friends

november broadcast is up:.

https://www.jw.org/download/?fileformat=mp4&output=html&pub=jwb&issue=201611.

we learn interesting things.

under the radar

Just another steaming pile of "spiritual food™".

It is nothing short of endorsing and encouraging parents to use emotional blackmail and social coercion to keep their children trapped in the Truth©. It's not a matter of convincing them that it's the right way to go, based on a clear understanding of all the issues involved. It's making them choose between their beliefs and their family, forcing them to worship in a way that they find unacceptable. Hmmm... Those words seem familiar. Where, oh where, have I seen something like that before?

Oh yeah. Awake!, July 2009 issue, pages 28-29 had an article entitled "Is It Wrong To Change Your Religion?" It contained this statement: "No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family."

This disgusting video makes a mockery of that article, and that statement in particular. It is nothing less than institutionalized hypocrisy.

The Society's website's public statements regarding shunning and family members are excellent examples of the doublespeak used to control the masses in the book 1984. The leaders themselves have been proven to be mealy-mouthed tap dancing liars, likely the envy of many a politician. Just look at Jackson's testimony before the Australian Royal Commission, if you want a prime example, and if you can stomach it.

Shunning, as a means of compelling someone to do something against their free will, is:

* Emotional blackmail

* Social coercion

* Psychological extortion

* An evil and disingenuous practice that is reason enough on its own to prove that the JW's are a false religion masquerading as Christian while making a mockery of his teachings.

As far as I'm concerned, the Society has many more parallels to the Mafia, Stalinist Russia, and North Korea than to what they pretend to be.

They have also shown that they are self-righteous, presumptuous, and arrogant in the extreme. They often use "Jehovah" and the "organization" interchangeably, basically equating the two. Why else would they consider leaving the organization the same as leaving Jehovah? In my book, that's tantamount to blasphemy.

And they're hypocritical in another way too. They want to speak with the authority of God's spokesmen, but accept none of the responsibility when they get it wrong. "Yeah, that's too bad. Sorry about that. We were just imperfect men trying to do our best. We never said we were infallible or inspired. But by God, we have it right now! And questioning us is the same as questioning God. Remember what happened to Korah!"

Forking bastids!

26

New movie by Mel Gibson 'Hacksaw ridge'

by barry in

jw
friends

i just went to a pre screening of this movie about an adventist guy who didn't want to kill but joined the army as a medic on the front line.

desmond doss saved 75 men in one operation singlehanded on the island of okinawa where desmond worked lowering men down a 400ft cliff to safety.. i thought this may be of interest to jws because of the pacifist stand they also have.. the movie comes out on the 4 th november..

under the radar

During World War I, the "brethren" allowed themselves to be drafted but were expected to refuse to bear arms. The Army sent them into combat anyway, and I would imagine that at least some did as the protagonist in this movie did, and tried to do what they could to save lives. I don't know for sure whether the Society "allowed" their people to do non-combatant work for the military or not.

During World War II, JW's who weren't granted conscientious objector or 4D (Minister) status were expected to refuse induction and accept whatever sentence was handed down. JW's were not allowed to directly support the war effort in any way. I don't recall ever hearing that "alternative service" was offered as an option at that time.

At first during Vietnam, JW's who weren't grant conscientious objector or 4D (Minister) status were again expected to refuse induction and accept whatever sentence was handed down. At some point in the 60's, "alternative service," such as working at a hospital, began to be offered to such men as an alternative to prison. For a while, young JW men were told by their elders to refuse any such offers and not to even hint that they would be willing to perform such service in lieu of going to prison. Only if actually sentenced to alternative service could a young man accept the assignment and stay in good standing with the congregation. There could be no plea bargain or "deal" beforehand. On top of that, the young men were warned to never say that the elders told them to take this stand. They had to say it was their own position and that no one had influenced their decision in any way.

In the late 60's and early 70's, when the Vietnam war began winding down, the Society quietly softened this stance and the young men were allowed to actually seek out such alternative service. No apology was ever offered to those who went to prison unnecessarily. In fact, the blanking Society had the gall to print an article practically chastising those who dared feel that they had suffered needlessly due to the whims of Society policy.

I am not aware of any support offered by the Society or any efforts at all being made to mitigate the suffering of these men or their families who sacrificed so much for the Truth™.

13

7 Things Most JW's Dont Know They're Supposed To Believe

by pale.emperor in

i decided to spend my sunday morning creating a youtube video highlighting 7 things most jw's dont know they're supposed to believe.

most of these i learned only after my exit of the cult.

here's hoping a few jw's will stumble upon it.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er44oc0p4ny&feature=youtu.be.

under the radar

pale.emperor, I hope you told that WT "rep" to fork off. I think your video is the very definition of "fair use."

30

I found a list my Wife is makingof subjects i have told her about the BORG.

by goingthruthemotions in

so me and my wife have not been on speaking terms for about 5 weeks, and when we do .

talk…it is arguing about the jw cult and more of a barrage from me telling here all the stuff i have learned.

i know i shouldn't do this....but, i get so freaking p.o ed aobut what this cult has done to my family.

under the radar

You said there were a few things on your wife's list that you hadn't brought up. But they all look like perfectly valid points against the Borg to me. Hmmm...

I know I'm swimming against the stream, but MAYBE that list could indicate that some of what you said struck home and that she's beginning to think for herself after all. Any reasoning person could have come up with those "extra" points on her list, if they had allowed themselves to simply draw logical conclusions without the weight of preconceived notions bearing down. Where else would she have gotten such ideas?

Still, there are many smart posters here and several have given you very good advice about being prepared for the worst. Yes, be prepared to be kicked out on short notice. But really, why should you be the one to leave? If you've been paying all the bills, let her be the one to choose between living with someone who doesn't share her particular set of religious superstitions or fending for herself for a change. Just sayin'...

Oh yeah, while I'm on my soapbox, I might as well say it: I think you were perfectly justified to check her tablet to see if she was "building some kind of case" against you. You need to know what you're up against so you can prepare the best defense. Think of it as your version of Theocratic Warfare. What's good for the goose...